Mixergy, Leo Laporte The “Don” Of Podcasts
Mixergy, Where Ambitious Upstarts Mix
Date: Aug. 2009
Guest: Leo Laporte of This Week in Tech, TWiT
The TWiT.tv Story It all started in 1998 with a small cable network called ZDTV, a channel dedicated to covering computers, the Internet, and personal technology. The people behind this site all worked on that network as hosts, reporters, or producers. In 2004, ZDTV, then called TechTV, was sold and dismantled. Former TechTV hosts, Leo Laporte, Patrick Norton, Kevin Rose, and John C. Dvorak, and producers Robert Heron, David Prager, and Roger Chang went on to other jobs, but we stayed in touch, with each other, and with fans of the late TechTV. Those fans told us again and again how important TechTV had been in their lives, and how much they missed the channel. We missed working with each other, too. On a rainy evening in January, 2005 a few of of us got together for dinner after spending the day covering MacWorld Expo in San Francisco. Leo, who was working as a radio host, happened to have a microphone and recorder. He turned it on and recorded 20 minutes of idle chatter about the Expo and the tech world in general. He posted that recording on his web site. Within a few days tens of thousands of people had downloaded the recording. TechTV fans began clamoring for more. A few months later, TWiT was born.
What are the major differences between major media and netcasting? In short, control of your product but in the past the barrier was the money required to startup.
What happened to you when Tech TV was sold? They got rid of him for The Screen Savers but kept him on Call For Help, Canada. Having been in the biz for sometime he had prepared for the possibility and had his radio show waiting in the background. He had 15 days off a month and with that has created TWiT primarily with sweat equity.
What was the first podcast you released? It was actually one of Leo’s radio shows (Oct. 2004), Jan. 2005 was the first TWiT podcast after a MacWorld Expo. recorded at a bar. He got about 10,000 downloads which caught his eye, but the logistics (locations of everyone) seemed daunting.
What was the reaction to your first podcast? Not too many followers (I question what this really means to Leo, I think to him a few means a couple thousand) this was before iTunes and only the true techie knew how to download the show.
Were you able to see if this was working right away? He was very lucky to be able to convert his mainstream media to new media. TWiT grew very fast to the biggest podcast out their (150,000 – 190,000 downloads, each show), actually more viewers than Tech TV.
After having a lot of downloads of the first pseudo TWiT episode (in the restaurant) what did you do next? Nothing, distance still seemed a barrier but a caller on his radio show called in on Skype and it sounded great. Leo had that epiphany moment of, hey this can work. April 2005 he launched the first TWiT and it was an instant hit. Believe it or not, the show was a mess John Dvorak was sending his messages in via chat because his connection was lost.
Andrew comments about an entrepreneur that started his own company and all the little things (office chores) that come with a business was too much to handle in addition to his big ideas. Leo agrees he hates the little stuff but by having employees they leverage his time and strengths and it allows him to concentrate on his work and expand his business.
How many employees do you have? 5 fulltime employees and many hosts which are kind of like contract employees.
How were you measuring success in the beginning? I used server data but have learned it is misleading. He hoped to be a donation only show and have a pure show. He soon learned that people are conditioned to advertising based free radio and a donation based business model wasn’t enough to grow the show.
How were you dealing with bandwidth issues when you first started, I heard your listeners were helping pay? They were originally using bit torrent (listeners were helping) but luckily AOL stepped up and sponsored the bandwidth. He currently has relationships with AOL, Cashfly, Stickam, Ustream and Bitgravity for bandwidth. He guestimates his usage would cost $40,000 to 50,000 a month. Donations helped him realize that people wanted his content, which helped with incidentals.
Mark McCrery of Podtrac approached Leo about podcast advertising and Leo was originally against the idea but they spoke, built a relationship and eventually Leo signed on. Mark was very instrumental about teaching marketers how important podcasting was to them, but it took about 3 years to get interest.
Leo really believes that you can have an idea but can’t build a business by yourself. However, if your idea is good and gets others excited they will help.
Do you ask for specific help from the audience? Yes, it is crowdsourcing for pretty much anything, except advertising which he lets Podtrac handle.
When did you know you could give up “Call For Help”, Canada? Spring of 2008 he knew he could do streaming video, but he knew he couldn’t do it traveling in to Canada 5 days a month. However, Call For Help was also starting to struggle and Leo and the executive agreed it was time to call it quits, allowing him to take TWiT network to the next level. Leo does comment, all the advertising money is still currently in audio podcasts.
Are you able to support yourself financially with the video and audio shows? He still has what he calls his day job, the radio show and still doesn’t take a salary. It took about 3 years to get a solid revenue stream to afford 5 employees. He believes he will make money in the long run and is still reinvesting in the show.
What is the big vision for the business? It changes, he has never been a businessman so he isn’t sure if he is doing it right but he uses feedback from the audience. At this moment, he believes people will want real time content on the internet. He wants to be the CNN of technology.
How many hours of show are you producing? Personally, 5 days a week 5 -6 hours, 30-35 hours. Approximately 40 hours including the shows that run without him.
What is it costing you to put out all the shows? $800 an hour compared to Call for Help $2,600 an hour and he estimates CNN to be $5,000 – $10,000 an hour. People are the expensive part, he points out that he provides health benefits.
What are you doing that is right, what advice can you give to other? Always be thinking of the audience and deliver great content, listen to the community in a broad sense. What do you think your audience wants? They are very active passionate people that love technology and are tired of being things being dumbed down by mainstream media.
Gary Vaynerchuk said that it isn’t about equipment, how important do you think these things are? There is a minimum standard, it cannot be difficult to hear and see. Gary is right to a point it is about passion and content.
Do you do anything active to get an audience? He tries not to over promote himself too much. In the early days he would mention that the show might be up for an award once but never pushed it too much. He thinks that if you provide ways for the fans to promote for them it will be taken care of by itself. He does make sure it is easy for people to get the shows in the easiest formats for people to use. Create good quality content and let the audience speak for you.
Any advice for bootstrapping digital content? It can be an advantage bootstrapping vs. venture capital because you don’t have this timeline to make money and hurry your product. He likes letting the audience steer the show where it needs to go. It slows down development a bit but he isn’t making mistakes. There is no substitute for sweat equity.
The TWiT network is owned outright by Leo.
Please give feedback, how can Andrew make his shows better?
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